Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

Saeco is a Philips brand, no funny rebranding business going on: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saeco

> Also there is sweet satisfaction form having fixed a thing

And if you do a video/write-up online you can share that feeling with others as well https://i.imgur.com/ZXAkTWC.png

I recently replaced the pump in my espresso machine. Turns out a lot (maybe all?) have the same solenoid pump and they are not expensive at about €25. Also found out my "Solis" machine is sold as Breville in the US.

I'm glad you figured that out. I have a Saeco machine (Magic Deluxe) from 2004 that I've kept in working shape. Parts still aren't too hard to come by on ebay - although I'm now replacing the boiler and did end up with the wrong part before finding the correct one. Now I figure if I can get a gasket kit, I can fix the boiler I'm pulling out and have a replacement on hand when it leaks again in 5-10 years.

For the most part, googling part #s and looking at pictures will get you pretty far. These machines share a lot of parts with other Saeco/Gaggia/Philips models.

The thing is, all of it is garbage compared to appliances from 20 yrs ago before mfgr's started designing everything to planned obsolescence and IoT. American GE at least has an extensive parts network in country, while if your LG/Samsung breaks at this point you are basically SOL. On top of that the COVID-19 supply shock issues have exacerbated this situation.

Any "shitty" builders grade whirlpool will have a full schematic and repair manual with it. In fact, most have a place inside the bottom front panel where this manual is attached.

They also have diagnostic modes and test cycles. Though not that easy to use. Perhaps the miele is more user friendly when it comes to repairs.

Is lasting twice as long really a convenience if the repair costs ten times as much? I've always preferred simpler appliances that are easy to work on.

i always see this as a form of stockholm syndrome.

My excesivly expensive and needlessly complex appliance is better then your cheaper and more common model becaues of a bunch of features no one cares about?

Can anyone access the Miele diagnostic board, or does it need some special Miele only tech to buy and use? Does the average consumer care that it has this function, espeiclaly when it is also so much more expensive to repair?

You can get a new base-model dishwasher for what the OP priced the replacement part at??

calling another brand "shitty" is just bad, no one said your clearly superior miele is shit, but you did to another brand for no reason?

I view dishwashers as disposable, after 4-5 years i throw them out and get a new one....

Ha - I have a new LG front loader and took the covers off to have a look around. It has at least half as many if not 2/3 less parts than the Whirlpool Duet HT it replaced. And the motherboard is tucked up at the top of the washer, not down below like my Duet.

I mean the Duet HT lasted me 15 years (and may last someone else another 15 if I get around to selling it) but the LG bests it in every way. Most impressively it's whisper quiet, barely makes any noise on all but the highest spin speed and even then doesn't shake my whole house like the Duet did. And it does a fantastic job cleaning my laundry. My towels have never been fluffier or more absorbent. It's almost as if someone replaced them mid-wash.

If it's half as reliable as my Duet I'll be ecstatic, and if it breaks I'll fix it. There aren't that many parts and diagnosing these things is pretty easy if you have at least minimum problem solving/deduction/critical thinking skills.

They are. For many, a new appliance is a significant investment. Even when it's not, I'd rather pay 200€ for a used washer than 700€ for a new one. There has to be a network of repairmen who refurbish and resell machines for that to happen.

I also repair my appliances because it's quick. I can usually fix it in a day or two without interacting with another human, for very little money.

. . . and in non inconsequential numbers. There's a critical mass to establishing this aftermarket.

... that’s when you decide to buy a lathe, and now you have a whole new hobby.

A local machine shop could probably build up the steel in the worn keyway in the shaft with a welder and cut a new keyway for a good deal less than the new part cost.

I have a Maytag washing machine & dryer from 1955 that still run and the only thing either ever needs is a new belt every 15 years or so.

I've seen the inside of modern washing machines and the difference between the two is stark.

Both machines are actually extremely simple, but the Maytag is incredibly overengineered. Every last component is quality.

Modern machines do everything in the PCB but every component had maximum cost squeezed out of it.

Small engine repair shops may have a used shaft - or look for the same/similar mower on Craigslist with a dead engine - how my friend repaired a rototiller.

Presumably from £ being the primary currency in the readme. I think GP means the hacking is from UK, (and contributors) rather than the manufacturer of this mental device, which is surprising because who in the UK would have one of these when 'normal' dishwashers are basically ubiquitous.

"Bob" is not the only countertop dishwasher that exists; this is a solid market segment. It's also worth noting that the median price of these things is less than Bob, even before you add in the cost of buying a dishwasher with an extra corporate revenue stream embedded in it.

Even in the United States where dishwashers are common, older buildings sometimes don't have them. I lived in a reasonably large apartment from the 1930s that was never upgraded to support a dishwasher. I would have loved a model like this.

Absolutely not made in Paris, but La Roche-sur-Yon in Vendée.

There are tabletop models which need little extra plumbing.

I'd be interested in reading more about this setup if you ever do a write up.

Yes please share what country you’re in and what equipment you use? This is very interesting.

I’ve come to the conclusion that buying “consumer” or even “prosumer” appliances is a lost cause, all the brands use the same 3 white label Chinese manufacturers and you get the same quality no matter what you buy, you can expect to be shopping for a new appliance in <5 years time.

I’m hopeful that commercial appliances aren’t yet at that stage, you end up paying a significant premium but you save in time and lost effort when you don’t have to deal with buying a new one so soon.

I'd drop the bleach if your dishwasher has stainless steel interior walls. Chlorine is hostile to stainless steel, causing pits in the oxidised surface of the metal, resulting in corrosion.

My plumber always tells me never to use drain cleaners, so I wouldn’t say nobody worries about it...

Doesn't that produce toxic fumes?

Is is exactly DRM: it's a digital method intended to restrict the user from undesirable usage (from the manufacturer's point of view).

Early restrictions on printer cartridges in the 1990s were simple: they could be bypassed with a bit of tape, or pressing a combination of buttons on the printer. Later, the chips could be reset, probably in a way similar to this. Now, there are encryption keys etc.

> suspect the reason they didn't do this was for a more "consumer friendly" design

That is naïve.

I'm confused. Yes, normal consumers can probably figure out how to put detergent and rinse liquid in. But what percentage of customers is going to be able to overwrite an i2c EEPROM? It is DRM for almost everyone.

Printer cartridges used to be easier to fill, too. Give them time.

I'm a fan of the channel, and watched the video, but also haven't had issues with my Bosch not having a pre-rinse compartment. It washes far better than any dishwasher I've had before, including ones that had a pre-rinse compartment.

Since we are talking dishwasher life hacks: I always add washing soda (sodium carbonate) along with the detergent, for hard water. It's one of the main ingredients in dry detergent, but it's super cheap. It boosts pH and increases the ratio of sodium to detergent, reducing soap scum.

I haven’t seen a machine that holds detergent for prewash cycles nor powdered detergent here in Denmark for over a decade

Another point regarding tabs: some of them contain rinse aids and salt (or other limescale mitigation) in addition to the detergent.

Salt needs to be dosed (read the manual and check the hardness of your water) which is not possible with tabs.

The rinse aid in the tab would be released at the wrong time together with the detergent. (Not sure how big of a problem this is).

The "Nes" in the name is from Nestle, who owns it - so it being terrible can't a surprise to anyone.

> one of these days governments/EU will step in and crush it

This seems unreasonably optimistic

Betamax wasn’t any more proprietary than VHS which was developed by JVC. It has a fairly large number of manufacturers that produced VCRs including NEC, Toshiba, Aiwa and Pioneer the issue was mainly cost and the fact that Betamax cam recorders could not be miniaturized as efficiently and as cheaply as VHS so you ended up with a two stage solution still for home movies and amateur movie production (porn played a big role here).

I don't think Beta really counts here. Probably the best example of Sony doing this is their Memory Stick, despite compact flash, sd and usb storage being readily available.

Fancy iPhone app that informs dishwashing finish by a twitter post ?

> Does someone come into the house and change it out?

No, you mail it to France and get a full one in the mail.

I wonder how well it would work if someone bypassed the cartridge and just hooked the dishwasher directly to the two giant external jugs, like one of those external CMYK ink tank systems for fancy printers.

That's true. I suppose keeping track another way might offset the added annoyance of the "rewind" routine (attaching another device, connecting USB for power) when refilling the reservoirs. Personal preference I guess.