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42 minutes ago by NelsonMinar

A bunch of replies to this are "I implemented my own version of What3Words". That sport has been around for a few years now. https://what3emojis.com/ is probably the most long-lived; I'm writing from telephone bus eggplant. (Hacker News' lack of emoji support makes interop here a little difficult.)

Unfortunately http://www.what3fucks.com/ seems to have ended their incredible journey.

It's a really stupid idea for addressing, triply so when you consider the pathetic little proprietary word database that's What3Words tool for extracting rents. Geohash is the oldest system that solves the problem of "give me a short textual name for a place" and has a nice ability to get more precise.

2 hours ago by kybernetikos

I did a words lat/long system as a couple day project at Christmas. https://wherewords.id/

I used the google S2 mapping, and spent quite a bit of time on my own wordlist. I like the S2 mapping - it lets you use fewer words to refer to a bigger area. I write a little bit about it here: https://wherewords.id/+about

I would have really liked to have found some good research on 'words that are hard to mistake when spoken aloud across various accents', but in the end I just spent ages going through my word list with various libraries and manually. And having friends point me to locations that had incredibly rude or offensive wherewords!

Really there should be a free, open source word<->location system that we all just standardise on and build into GPS systems and maps, because a common, free system would be genuinely useful.

an hour ago by rozab

How many times has the wheel been reinvented with these phonetic word list schemes? Loads of crypto apps use them, e.g. for bitcoin wallet recovery. Do they all roll their own scheme? Someone should attempt to make a standard if none exists.

Interoperability isn't even that important, I just want to pull something into my project.

an hour ago by kybernetikos

I originally planned to use the crypto wordlist but ultimately it proved not to be suitable. I talk a little about it https://wherewords.id/+about

an hour ago by rozab

Great summary, thanks

3 hours ago by rdpintqogeogsaa

Going by other people's experience with them[0], I wonder how long this post will stay up.

[0] https://twitter.com/AaronToponce/status/1387933438305394690

3 hours ago by ykat7

Aaron posted an update. As of an hour ago they "consider the matter closed": https://twitter.com/AaronToponce/status/1388828107407245312

3 hours ago by detaro

Given that cybergibbons has spent the past weeks looking into this very loudly and publicly, don't expect him to back down.

an hour ago by boramalper

2 hours ago by jedimastert

I'm baffled they used any plurals at all. I feel like "only one form of a word" should have been near top priority for generating the dictionary. No plurals, no conjugations (even better would be to pick one conjugation, say, infinitive) maybe even no adjective/adverb forms of verb.

I wonder how many words in the english language would be left? I know the english language is massive

2 hours ago by cybergibbons

The word list already is 40k long. That's beyond most people's vocab and includes really awkward to spell words.

IMO, if the solution is to use words, then What4Words would have had a word list of less than 3000, resulting in a word list with less confusable words and more accessible to children and people who struggle to read or write.

an hour ago by pmoriarty

Spelling is the Achilles' heel of all word-based systems.

People who have trouble with spelling (such as non-native speakers of whatever language the words come from or children) may not be able to rely on word-based systems. Word-based systems are also going to be hampered by speakers of different accents.

Letter- and number-based systems are probably always going to be much more robust, especially when used with a standard phonetic alphabet[1]. There could even be a checksum letter/number to make the system even more robust. Unfortunately, such systems will never be as memorable or as easy to say as a few words (spelling issues aside).

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_phonetic_alphabet

25 minutes ago by jeroenhd

Spelling is very much an underappreciated problem. Written English is particularly bad, sometimes requiring memorization that's not much unlike Chinese characters, because of the written language not adapting to the vowel shifts and changes in pronunciation, as well as the mess of a history the language has gone through as it developed in the UK.

Children, dyslexics, non-native speakers, all will have a hard time writing down many words even if they're part of the top 1000 list.

With the right word set (avoiding homophones) and the presence of autocorrect (or an input only allowing the limited word list), you could probably create a pretty resilient system if you only take the most common words (top 1k would likely be sufficient). You'll need a longer address, but remembering six words is a lot easier than remembering six letters.

Sadly, the entire concept is flawed and doomed for as long as the goons of What Three Words operate their business like a failed media company, sending out threats, falsifying legal documents to enforce takedown requests, and lawyering up to anyone who even considers applying "their" algorithm on their own. "Their" idea may be patentable in the US, but in areas of the world where there is no such patent, these goons cannot take down the competition without lying and dishonesty and they've shown to do anything to prevent any competitor from entering the market.

an hour ago by flir

> Spelling is the Achilles' heel of all word-based systems.

Stick with nouns? Then you can use icons as supplements. Ball, Pen, Light bulb, Burger, Guitar.

Possibly easier to translate between languages, too.

2 hours ago by kybernetikos

I did one of these for fun at the beginning of the year, and ended up needing to spend way more time on the wordlist than I'd expected. In the end I felt that a list of 4096 words was a decent compromise between accuracy and is still fairly managable for trying to remove words that are too easy to mistake for each other. It lets you do everywhere on earth to slightly more accuracy than what3words in 4 words.

Something that what3words does is not have an obvious hierarchy of words (e.g. where the first one covers a larger area, and subsequent words home in). I didn't like that, but I understand why they do it - if a single word is going to cover a large area, you have to be extra careful that you don't choose something offensive for a particular region. By having no obvious structure, they get away with being less careful on the wordlist.

an hour ago by eterm

The issue of hierarchy is that it's orthogonal to having very different results for nearby areas.

With a hierarchy you immediately run into, "Am I in gibbons.apple.banana or was it gibbons.apple.bandana" which is just down the road.

Without hierarchy it jumps out that one of those results is improbable if tallied with any knowledge of roughly where the person is.

2 hours ago by teachingassist

What3Words accounts at Companies House in the UK are extremely interesting.

They burned through just over £15,000,000 in 2019, for a total revenue just under £400,000 from 100+ employees.

an hour ago by ealexhudson

I thought you were kidding, but apparently not. Even worse : £320k of that revenue was from sales to Daimler AG (a shareholder) and is described as "services". I would love to understand the business model here, they've maintained £23M ish cash at hand since end 2017 but I'm not clear what the play here is...

39 minutes ago by trollied

I think that £23m is just capital from issued shares. Anyway, it's certainly not viable. I guess it remains to be seen how long investors will keep on chucking money at it to keep it afloat.

Filing history, if anyone else is interested: https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/c...

2 hours ago by jack_riminton

I always wondered if they were actually used by anyone then I saw their recent advertising and it seems to focus on emergency services and finding places in large fields

I created a project using an alternative method using gifs for directions: http://gif.direct which I personally think is more useful (if less refined!)

2 hours ago by kawsper

They are dangerous for emergency services, here is a case where W3W showed a location many miles away: https://twitter.com/isleofmandan/status/1386455377949122561

Someone have also compiled a list of pairs that only differs by one letter, like these two:

instants.lightening.precedents

instants.lightning.precedents

You can see the whole map here: https://twitter.com/cybergibbons/status/1385891425108250626

I wish they would just use "pluscodes" instead, the algorithm is opensource and doesn't depend on a specific dictionary: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Location_Code

an hour ago by saalweachter

You also need to distinguish between the contexts where you need addresses versus coordinates.

Lat-longs, plus codes, and word-encoding schemes are all coordinates -- they identify a point or area on the globe.

Addresses are last-mile navigational instructions. "Apt D, 123 Main St" allows anyone with local knowledge to navigate efficiently to the location indicated: first they drive to Main Street, then they proceed along the ~monotonically numbered parcels to 123, then continue to the apartment labeled "D".

The advantage of coordinates is that they don't require local knowledge and can identify arbitrary points; the advantage of addresses is that they encode instructions for land navigation that takes into account which parts of the land are passable.

an hour ago by tgv

You mean people thought they were going to make a load of money with this? And that they spend 5 times more money on this simplistic google maps ripoff than the 40 employee company I work for, which runs a £250k profit? I am baffled.

2 hours ago by micheljansen

I learned about pluscodes because of this and they seem quite elegant: https://maps.google.com/pluscodes/

10 minutes ago by thinkingemote

Is this algorithm based on the "clean room" reverse engineering effort?

2 hours ago by pbronez

Skip What3Words, use Placekey: https://www.placekey.io/

It's a better identifier and a much friendlier organization. Technical details here: https://docs.placekey.io/Placekey_Technical_White_Paper.pdf

43 minutes ago by TazeTSchnitzel

Is that another proprietary algorithm?

an hour ago by JimDabell

Placekey seems neat, but it only fully supports the USA and partially supports the Netherlands.

14 minutes ago by ape4

lol it says "universal"

an hour ago by rocky1138

Slick site, but I'm not able to use it as I'm not in the USA.

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